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Dr. Humphreys shares his experience as a hospice counselor, noting that hospice staff are surprisingly 'the most upbeat people I've ever worked with.' He explains this optimism comes from accepting that the patient will die, removing the 'worst-case scenario' fear and allowing staff to focus on helping patients and families achieve a 'good death' with compassion and understanding.
Andrew Huberman expresses his admiration for Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) as a shining example of human self-organization. He highlights its independence from external funding, political influence, and its ability to thrive globally without traditional financial structures.
Dr. Humphreys discusses the data on 12-step programs for addictions other than alcohol, such as narcotics anonymous and cocaine anonymous. He notes that while encouraging and positive, the evidence for these groups is not as strong or as easy to demonstrate a causal effect as it is for Alcoholics Anonymous.
Dr. Humphreys explains that trying 12-step meetings like AA is a low-risk endeavor, similar to going to a movie. He highlights the benefit of mutual support and the existence of 'open meetings' for curious non-addicts, making it accessible for anyone to explore without commitment.
Andrew Huberman discusses the impact of GLP-1 peptides on weight loss, emphasizing that they reaffirm the laws of thermodynamics: eating less than you burn leads to weight loss. He notes their effectiveness, increasing accessibility through compounding, and the surprisingly low doses required for desired effects, even if pharmaceutical companies are not pleased.
Dr. Humphreys introduces the concept of addiction patients desiring 'not to want' a substance, rather than just conquering desire. He illustrates this with a friend's experience on GLP-1s for weight loss, where the constant effort to avoid eating disappeared. He then poses the exciting question of applying this 'satiety' effect to reduce the desire for drugs like cocaine or alcohol.
Dr. Humphreys discusses the promising, albeit early, evidence from animal studies, small trials, and epidemiological studies suggesting that GLP-1s, particularly semaglutide (Ozempic/Wegovy), can lead to drops in alcohol use. He explains that alcohol's 'eating-like behavior' makes it a prime target for these satiety-inducing drugs, leading to optimism for their use in addiction treatment.
Dr. Humphreys discusses the controversial issue of direct-to-consumer pharmaceutical advertising, noting that only the US and New Zealand allow it. He argues that these ads can create an unrealistic expectation that 'everything is perfectable' by bullying doctors. He also connects overpromotion (not just TV ads) of opioids to the opioid crisis, highlighting how industry influence contributed to the problem.
Dr. Humphreys discusses the unknown long-term effects of social media addiction, including questions about a 'maturing out' effect seen in alcohol use disorder among college students. He wonders if those who grew up with constant digital exposure from a young age will experience similar developmental shifts or if their neuroplasticity will lead to different outcomes, such as neglecting real-world relationships.
Dr. Humphreys discusses various tools like dumb phones and software to manage social media notifications. He emphasizes the need for evolving social norms around social media, similar to those for alcohol (e.g., 'don't drink and drive'). He hopes for collective agreement on sensible behaviors, like avoiding social media at the dinner table, as individual clinical medicine alone cannot solve the problem.
Dr. Humphreys emphasizes that there are 'many, many pathways to recovery' beyond formal treatment. He shares stories of individuals quitting smoking after becoming a father, or overcoming methamphetamine addiction during a prison sentence, highlighting that life changes and simply being away from the drug can be powerful catalysts. He notes that most people recovering from substance problems don't go through traditional addiction treatment.
Dr. Humphreys discusses how 12-step programs like AA, with their 'keep it simple' action-oriented approach ('don't drink, go to meetings'), might resonate differently with intellectual vs. 'plug-and-chug' personalities. He advises that AA is not monolithic, and encourages people to 'think of this like dating' by trying different meetings to find a group that feels like home, even for intellectual discussions.
Andrew Huberman and Dr. Humphreys discuss the profound wisdom found in AA meetings, particularly through 'shares' from diverse individuals. They explain that AA's 'Big Book' is intentionally filled with stories, serving as a conscious strategy to foster connection and hope: if someone from a vastly different background can achieve sobriety, others can too, creating a sense of belonging and possibility.
Dr. Humphreys discusses the stark contrast in how death is perceived in advanced technological societies like the US versus developing countries. He notes that in developing countries, where death is openly visible, there is 'more death and less fear.' In contrast, Americans are often more terrified because death is 'hidden and denied,' necessitating a conscious effort to confront it.
Dr. Humphreys addresses the question of whether men or women are more prone to addiction or seeking help. He states that men are 'larger consumers of addictive substances in every culture on earth' and are overrepresented in most major addictions, providing statistics for opioids (2:1 men to women) and alcohol (60/40), with prescription medication being closer to 50/50.
Dr. Humphreys explains that the relationship between addiction and lying isn't due to overlapping brain circuitry, but rather that addicts frequently find themselves in situations where lying is the only way to cover up their behavior. He also highlights how societal interactions and certain ways doctors ask about substance use can compel addicted individuals to lie to avoid negative reactions.
Dr. Humphreys explains that relapse can occur during both good times and bad times. He shares a tragic story of someone who relapsed after achieving sobriety and a high-paying job, illustrating how complacency ('I'm happy, I'm okay now') can be a trigger. However, he broadly states that relapse is most likely during times of stress, whether transitory (e.g., arguments, exhaustion) or significant life challenges.
Andrew Huberman shares three success stories of young men struggling with 'failure to launch' syndrome, characterized by video game/YouTube addiction and ADHD diagnoses. Through understanding reward circuitry (Dopamine Nation), quitting digital media, and hard work, they reclaimed their attentional capabilities and agency, leading to success in higher education, healthy relationships, and breaking family cycles of addiction.
Andrew Huberman explains that a critical component of 12-step programs is acknowledging a 'higher power,' but clarifies that this is not about formal religion. He emphasizes that individuals can self-assign what that higher power is, from God or Jesus Christ to nature, the universe, or the collective, dispelling the common misconception that it requires becoming formally religious.
Dr. Humphreys explains that AA is a spiritual, not religious, organization, emphasizing its flexibility and that the 12 steps are 'suggestions.' He shares a powerful quote: 'the God can be anything... it just can't be you,' highlighting the core philosophy of breaking the ego and admitting loss of control, which is non-negotiable for recovery in AA.
Andrew Huberman explains how anyone, even non-addicts, can attend an open AA meeting to learn. He offers practical advice on what to say as a visitor ('I'm just here to learn') and suggests that attending yourself can be a powerful 'trick tool' to encourage a friend or family member to try 12-step programs, highlighting their free and accessible nature.
Andrew Huberman shares a personal strategy for managing social media use: he keeps his old phone, loaded with X and Instagram, in a 'Supermax prison lock box' that can't be coded out of. This physical barrier prevents him from impulsively checking social media, leading to increased work output, recreation, and presentness in his relationships.
Dr. Humphreys describes the profound honor of being 'the last friend somebody ever makes' in hospice. This intimate experience, being present with dying individuals in their homes, not only helped him overcome his own fear of death but also enabled him to radiate acceptance, guiding families and even other doctors through their anxiety and helping them find peace with dying.
Andrew Huberman poses a philosophical question: Is addiction fundamentally an attempt to escape our fear of death? He explores how the human brain's ability to foresee mortality can be terrifying, and how the 'timelessness' of being high might serve as a temporary escape from this deep-seated fear, raising the question of whether embracing death could be a treatment strategy.
Dr. Humphreys responds to the idea of addiction as an escape from the fear of death, broadening it to a 'desire for oblivion' to escape a range of 'unpleasant truths'—from PTSD and childhood abuse to marital disintegration. He explains that drugs offer a short-term escape and euphoria, but recovery is challenging because it means facing these painful realities head-on, which can dissuade some from stopping.
Dr. Humphreys highlights the 'two-fer benefit' of GLP-1s: simultaneously addressing both overweight issues and drinking problems, given that people with drinking problems are 70% more likely to be overweight. He shares an anecdote about patients motivated to take Ozempic for weight loss, who then unexpectedly reduce their drinking, emphasizing the 'thrilling' potential of these long-established drugs.
Dr. Humphreys debunks the idea of AA being a cult by highlighting two key differences: cults take money, while AA actively limits financial contributions and operates perpetually broke by design; and cults restrict members from leaving, whereas AA allows anyone to leave freely at any time.
Dr. Humphreys discusses the tragic dilemma of social media addiction, quoting a Stanford freshman who feels social media is bad for mental health but feels compelled to be on it because 'everybody else is.' He explores studies on how much people would pay to leave social media if others did too, and highlights how collective actions like Australia's social media ban could make 'real life' more appealing for teenagers.
Dr. Humphreys shares his personal motivation for working in hospice: to overcome his own fear of death. As a 'counterphobic person' who doesn't like being afraid, he applied the principle of exposure therapy, choosing to spend as much time around death as possible. This intimate experience ultimately took away his fear and enabled him to help others struggling with similar anxieties.
Andrew Huberman shares a powerful story of a team member who overcame lifelong alcohol and cannabis addiction without meetings, simply by deciding to quit and replacing the habit with going to the gym. This led to improved relationships, professional success, and breaking a long family line of alcoholism, demonstrating that 'genes are risk, they're not destiny' and recovery can lead to acquiring new, positive reasons not to use.
Dr. Humphreys shares the two key pieces of addiction advice he gives his college-age sons: a dire warning about fentanyl, emphasizing the danger of taking any unverified pill, and the fundamental principle that 'you will never get addicted to something that you choose never to use. That is your maximal point of control.'