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Balancing Mission & Money: MAPS's Public Benefit Pharma Model
Rick Doblin elaborates on the core challenge for MAPS: ensuring public benefit remains the priority, whether funded by philanthropy (which seeks a better world as return) or investors (who expect financial returns). He explains that while philanthropy is ideal for focusing on trauma reduction, taking investor money might be a necessary evil to avoid running out of funds and never getting MDMA to patients.
The Missing Piece in Psychedelic Therapy: Why Integration & Support Are Crucial
Rick Doblin explains that psychedelic experiences alone are not enough for lasting change, especially in contexts like criminal rehabilitation or addiction recovery. Drawing from the flawed Conquered Prison Experiment, he emphasizes the critical need for social support, aftercare, and integration therapy to help individuals process their experiences and make sustainable life shifts, highlighting the model used in MDMA research.
The Unexpected Outcome of Draft Resistance & Carter's Pardon
Rick Doblin recounts the surprising outcome of his draft resistance, where nothing happened despite his expectations, and how President Jimmy Carter's pardon transformed his self-identification from a "counterculture drug-using criminal."
Unveiling the Hidden Truth: What Really Happened in the Good Friday Experiment
Rick Doblin recounts his incredible journey to conduct a long-term follow-up of the Good Friday experiment, a landmark psychedelic study. He describes how he uncovered forgotten records and discovered a critical incident of a student needing tranquilization that was omitted from original reports, highlighting the historical tendency to suppress risks or exaggerate benefits in psychedelic research.
From Addiction to Advocate: How Ibogaine Heals and Inspires the "Leave Nobody Behind" Ethos
Joe Rogan and Rick Doblin discuss the transformative power of Ibogaine for addiction, citing Ed Clay's journey from pill addiction to opening an Ibogaine center. They highlight the common phenomenon of healed individuals wanting to help others, especially among veterans who embody the "leave nobody behind" principle.
The Untold Story: Michael Marcus, Stan Grof, and the Origins of Ibogaine Research & Holotropic Breathwork
Rick Doblin reveals that Aubrey Marcus's late father, Michael Marcus, was instrumental in starting Ibogaine research. He connects this to Michael's work with Stan Grof, the leading LSD researcher, who developed holotropic breathwork as a non-drug method to induce psychedelic-like experiences after psychedelics were criminalized.
Why the Vietnam War is Universally Regarded as a Terrible Thing
Joe Rogan and Rick Doblin discuss the Vietnam War as a rare military operation universally seen as a failure, linking it to "imperial overreach" and "false flags" and expressing concern about similar events in history.
Sabotage or Irresponsibility? The MDMA Study Aftermath & Personal Sacrifice
Following the MDMA study's retraction, Rick Doblin discusses speculation of sabotage and the researchers' irresponsibility. He then shares his deeply personal experience of undergoing a spinal tap to test for neurotransmitter metabolites, highlighting his commitment to ethical research.
Public Benefit Corporations: A New Model for Ethical Pharma
Rick Doblin explains the concept of Public Benefit Corporations (PBCs) as a modified form of capitalism that prioritizes public benefit over maximizing profits, preventing minority shareholders from forcing out management for not prioritizing profit. This model allows MAPS to innovate in pharmaceutical distribution while maintaining its mission.
How Marcus Luttrell's Healing with Ibogaine Convinced Governor Rick Perry to Support Psychedelics
Rick Doblin shares how Governor Rick Perry's support for psychedelic therapy was influenced by the dramatic improvement of Marcus Luttrell, who lived with him after military service and found healing through Ibogaine in Mexico.
Rick Doblin on Why His 51-Year Dedication to Psychedelics Still Makes Sense
Rick Doblin, founder of MAPS, reflects on dedicating his life to psychedelics in 1972, just after the Schedule I act was passed, highlighting the immense risk and long-term vision behind his work.
Why Podcasts Excel at Nuance: The Limitations of Traditional TV
Rick Doblin explains how traditional television shows, driven by sensationalism, struggle to convey the nuance of complex topics like psychedelic experiences, while long-form podcasts offer a superior platform for sharing complete, unedited stories.
Nixon's Drug War: A Political Weapon Disguised as Public Safety
Rick Doblin explains the two-pronged strategy for Ibogaine legalization and reveals the historical context of the drug war, citing Nixon's domestic policy advisor who admitted the war on drugs was a political tool to target civil rights activists and anti-war hippies, with known exaggeration of drug risks.
Why 'This Is Your Brain On Drugs' Won't Work Anymore: The Internet's Impact
Joe Rogan and Rick Doblin discuss how the internet has fundamentally changed the landscape of drug information, making it impossible for the kind of propaganda seen in past eras (like 'Reefer Madness' or 'This Is Your Brain On Drugs') to succeed today. They highlight the flood of accessible, honest information from sources like MAPS and Michael Pollan as key to this shift, emphasizing the importance of continued transparency.
The Unlikely Alliance: How Ted Nugent, the Anti-Drug Rocker, Became a Psychedelic Supporter
Rick Doblin shares the remarkable story of how he found common ground with Ted Nugent, known for his anti-drug stance, thanks to Nugent's son, Rocco Moon. Nugent now sees the therapeutic benefits of psychedelics, especially for veterans, demonstrating the power of bridging ideological divides.
Rick Doblin on MLK's View of Civil Disobedience & His Path to Psychedelic Therapy
Rick Doblin explains how Martin Luther King Jr.'s philosophy reframed civil disobedience as patriotism, influencing his decision not to register for the draft, and how this path ultimately led him to become an underground psychedelic therapist.
Joe Rogan: Why DMT Makes the Daily News Seem Trivial
Joe Rogan expresses his wonder at psychedelics, particularly how a DMT experience can transport you to an "impossible realm," making the daily news and its myriad trivial topics seem utterly insignificant in comparison.
Daniel Ellsberg's Regret: Why He Wished He Had More Courage Sooner
Rick Doblin shares Daniel Ellsberg's personal regret about not speaking up earlier regarding the Gulf of Tonkin incident, despite later being hailed as a hero for releasing the Pentagon Papers, emphasizing the importance of early courage in challenging government narratives.
From Draft Resistor to Ally of Veterans with PTSD
Rick Doblin reflects on the profound irony and rightness of his journey from a draft resistor who valued military protection (especially as a Jewish person) to now leading efforts to help suffering veterans, including special operators with PTSD, through psychedelic therapy.
MAPS' Grand Vision: A World of Net Zero Trauma by 2070
Rick Doblin outlines MAPS' ambitious vision for a 'world of net zero trauma by 2070,' discussing the growing burden of trauma from climate change and global events, the impact of epigenetics, and the ultimate goal of achieving mass mental health and a spiritualized humanity.
The Hidden Risks of Marijuana: Why We Need Honest Conversations
Joe Rogan and Rick Doblin discuss the under-acknowledged dangers of high-dose marijuana, including potential schizophrenic breaks, and criticize the pro-marijuana movement for downplaying these risks. They advocate for complete honesty about both benefits and potential harms to avoid a backlash and ensure informed decisions.
The Unexpected Alliance: How Psychedelics Won Over Conservatives and Veterans
Joe Rogan and Rick Doblin discuss how the demonstrated benefits of psychedelics for veterans with PTSD have shifted perceptions, gaining support from conservative groups and people who traditionally viewed psychedelics negatively.
Psychedelics: The Greatest Way to Break Down Ideological Dogma
Rick Doblin argues that psychedelic experiences are one of the most effective ways for individuals, regardless of political leaning, to relax ideological and dogmatic ideas that restrict them from considering differing viewpoints, fostering common ground.
Rick Doblin's 5-MeO DMT Revelation: The Perpetual Ability to Connect with Creation
Rick Doblin shares a pivotal 5-MeO DMT experience that brought him back to the "moment of creation," revealing that life's patterns are not fixed and "the new can enter at any moment." This insight has been crucial to MAPS' success, teaching him to find new solutions when feeling stuck and to challenge life's "cruise control."
The Ibogaine Bet: How a Stock Trader Funded Global Psychedelic Research After Regaining His Edge
Rick Doblin shares the incredible story of Michael Marcus, a stock trader who, after feeling he was "losing his edge," used Ibogaine in Mexico to regain confidence. This led him to successfully short the market before a major crash. Grateful, Michael then funded MAPS' first Ibogaine research project in Mexico and later, an "idealistic" study in Jordan, highlighting the drug's potential despite its illegal status in the US.
From Therapy to Ecstasy: The Untold Story of MDMA's Origins and Criminalization
Rick Doblin recounts how Leo Zeff pioneered MDMA's therapeutic use in the mid-70s, before it became known as a party drug. He describes its public use at the Star Club in Dallas, which ultimately drew the attention of Senator Lloyd Bentsen and led to the DEA's criminalization efforts, prompting Doblin to start MAPS in anticipation of the crackdown.
Rick Doblin's Unforgettable Experience: Ibogaine & 350 Micrograms of LSD Simultaneously
Rick Doblin recounts the extreme psychedelic combination he experienced: a hefty dose of Ibogaine in plant form administered simultaneously with 350 micrograms of LSD, and his ability to discern the distinct effects of each powerful substance as they took hold.
Carl Hart's Radical Idea: The More Dangerous the Drug, The More Important it is to be Legal
Rick Doblin shares neuroscientist Carl Hart's provocative idea that 'the more dangerous the drug, the more important it is that it be legal,' explaining that this approach allows for immediate help, reduces stigma, ensures purity, and prioritizes treatment over punishment.
Oprah's Role in the 'Holes in Your Brain' Ecstasy Propaganda
Rick Doblin recounts how Oprah Winfrey's show amplified the false 'holes in your brain' narrative about MDMA, originating from a graphically manipulated image on MTV, and how Oprah canceled a planned show on MDMA's benefits after the propaganda was exposed.
Groundbreaking MDMA Therapy: Phase 3 Success for Severe PTSD
Rick Doblin details the phenomenal success of MAPS' second Phase 3 study for MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD, showcasing incredible statistical significance, high responder rates (88%), and a strong safety record, including patients with severe, long-term PTSD.
The Infamous MDMA Dopamine Study Retraction: Methamphetamine Mix-Up
Rick Doblin exposes the retraction of a highly publicized Science journal article that falsely claimed MDMA caused Parkinson's by damaging dopamine. The study, funded by NIDA, was retracted after it was discovered researchers mistakenly administered methamphetamine instead of MDMA to primates.
AA Founder Bill W.'s Secret Psychedelic Experience for Sobriety
Rick Doblin reveals how Bill W., co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous, had a psychedelic experience (belladonna, then LSD) that initially helped him get sober and later led him to believe LSD could help others 'psychologically hit bottom' without the devastating consequences of hitting rock bottom in real life.
Exposing the Fraud: Timothy Leary's Conquered Prison Experiment Wasn't a Success
Rick Doblin reveals his shocking discovery when following up on Timothy Leary's Conquered Prison Experiment, which aimed to reduce recidivism with psilocybin. Doblin explains how he found evidence of scientific fraud, where Leary manipulated data by comparing short-term follow-up with longer-term base rates, leading Doblin to debunk what was once considered a monumental success in psychedelic therapy.
Unexpected Ally: Texas Legislature Funds Psychedelic Research for Veterans
Rick Doblin shares an inspiring personal anecdote of discovering that the conservative Texas legislature is allocating millions for MDMA and psilocybin studies at the Houston VA for veterans with PTSD. This unexpected support from a traditionally conservative state signals a significant shift in policy and public perception towards psychedelics, offering hope for broader acceptance and renovation of drug policies.
Sacred Substances vs. Commerce: The MAPS Funding Dilemma
Rick Doblin discusses MAPS's critical decision: remain a nonprofit solely owning its public benefit corp or go public for investor funding. Joe Rogan expresses strong concern about mixing "sacred substances" like psychedelics with profit-driven commerce, highlighting the inherent conflict between public benefit and corporate interests.
How "Data Exclusivity" Changed Everything for MAPS and MDMA
Rick Doblin recounts a pivotal moment where he learned about "Data Exclusivity" from a patent attorney. This 1984 Ronald Reagan bill allows the first company to prove an off-patent drug's efficacy to have exclusive use of their data for 5 years, even without a patent. This revelation drastically changed MAPS's strategy for MDMA.
Why MDMA Therapy is "Extremely Likely" to Get FDA Approval
Rick Doblin explains the key reasons for his high confidence in FDA approval for MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD. He cites MAPS's statistical significance, excellent safety record, valid data (confirmed by FDA inspection), and a prior agreement with the FDA on the study design. He also highlights crucial bipartisan political support, which has kept psychedelics out of culture wars.
The "Best Anti-Drug Strategy": Offering MDMA to Your 13-Year-Olds
Rick Doblin shares a humorous and controversial parenting anecdote: for his children's Bar Mitzvah, he and his wife offered them marijuana or MDMA, suggesting they could do it together. His kids were "freaked out" by the idea, leading Rick to conclude it was "the best anti-drug strategy."
Rick Doblin: How Ibogaine Cleared His Mind of Self-Criticism and Increased Openness
Rick Doblin describes the profound, lasting impact of his Ibogaine experience, explaining how it "cleared out a lot of space in my mind from this constant self-criticism," resulting in greater openness and an enhanced ability to be self-critical without falling into self-hatred. He credits this difficult experience as pivotal to his personal and professional growth.
The Unused Solution: Why Ibogaine is Banned in the US Despite its Potential for the Opioid Crisis
Rick Doblin highlights the tragedy of the opioid epidemic and the lack of Ibogaine studies in the US, forcing people abroad despite its low abuse potential and effectiveness for addiction. He explains MAPS' efforts to develop an Investigator Brochure for the FDA, outlining global research on Ibogaine for methadone and opiate withdrawal. Doblin addresses the drug's safety concerns, emphasizing that under medical supervision, no one needs to die, and advocates for its reclassification from Schedule I, arguing it's a prime example of a drug that should be removed.
The Drug War: A Massive, Tragic Experiment Exported Globally
Rick Doblin and Joe Rogan reflect on the drug war, comparing it to Vietnam as a 'massive tragic experiment' that has caused enormous violence and been exported worldwide, highlighting the need for change.
Rick Doblin: How the Stories We Tell Ourselves Can Prolong Suffering (and How Psychedelics Break Them)
Rick Doblin shares a fascinating post-Ibogaine anecdote: despite a blissful night, he told himself he hadn't "earned" the breakthrough and would be nauseous again. This self-fulfilling prophecy came true, leaving him incapacitated. He explains how this illustrates the profound power of "the stories we tell ourselves" and how psychedelics can "shake things up" to break these ingrained patterns, like those in PTSD or depression.
Joe Rogan: "What About Me?" - Challenging Stereotypes of Psychedelic Users
Joe Rogan passionately pushes back against the stereotype that psychedelic or marijuana users are lazy or unproductive. He highlights himself and his disciplined, hard-working, open-minded friends as examples that defy these narrow, often cruel, categorizations.
The Brain-Rewiring Power of Ibogaine: A Solution for Opioid Addiction Hindered by "Disastrous Drug Policy"
Rick Doblin explains that Ibogaine, despite being a "classic example of disastrous drug policy" (made illegal because LSD dealers had it), offers remarkable benefits, particularly for opiate withdrawal, allowing users to go through it without pain in days. He elaborates on the science of neuroplasticity, showing how Ibogaine and other psychedelics rewire the brain, promote new neural growth, and extend the window for therapeutic integration, making it a powerful tool for trauma and addiction.
Rick Doblin's Breakthrough: Severing Self-Criticism from Self-Hatred for Personal Growth
After a grueling psychedelic experience, Rick Doblin achieved a blissful state and realized the crucial distinction between self-criticism (a drive for quality) and self-hatred. He explains how he "severed the connection" between the two, accepting himself as a flawed human, and made the self-critical part of his mind an ally for continuous learning and growth.
Joe Rogan on DMT's Profound Impact & Rick Doblin Explains the Default Mode Network
Joe Rogan describes DMT as his most profound psychedelic experience, questioning the nature of reality and consciousness it reveals. Rick Doblin then provides scientific context, explaining how classic psychedelics weaken the Default Mode Network, allowing for a deeper connection to a "unitive sense" and the abandonment of preconceived notions.
Diapers at Burning Man: A Post-Surgery Adventure
Rick Doblin shares a hilarious personal story about his prostate surgery recovery, leading to him wearing diapers at Burning Man and surprising fellow attendees by 'peeing the entire time' during a cuddle puddle.
Joe Rogan Recalls First 5-MeO DMT Experience: "Am I Dying?" - Entering the Source Code of the Universe
Joe Rogan vividly describes his first 5-MeO DMT experience, including the intense fear and sensation of dying at the "doorway" of the trip. He recounts the lack of visuals, the "great white pattern," and the feeling of being shot "to the center of everything" while experiencing what seemed like the "source code of the universe."
Joe Rogan on How He Teaches His Children About Drug Dangers (and Fentanyl)
Joe Rogan shares his candid approach to educating his children about drugs, emphasizing that illegality makes drugs dangerous due to unknown doses and fentanyl contamination. He explains the risks of fentanyl in various substances and argues that prohibition funnels money to criminals, hindering safety and control.
"Crucified on the Cross of Self-Perfectionism": Rick Doblin's Ibogaine Revelation
Rick Doblin describes the harrowing 12-hour cycle during his Ibogaine experience, where his inability to "let go" led to intense self-criticism, self-hatred, and physical sickness. He vividly recounts the imagery of being "crucified on the cross of self-perfectionism," realizing his desire to be perfect was making him sick, ultimately leading to a "Transcendence through Exhaustion."
The Secret History: Sasha Shulgin Tested Psychedelics at Bohemian Grove with the Elite
Rick Doblin reveals a fascinating and controversial piece of psychedelic history: chemist Sasha Shulgin, after inventing hundreds of psychedelics, would test new compounds with a group, including at the secretive Bohemian Grove, where participants included "presidents and bankers."
Justice Breyer's Wisdom: The Essence of Democracy is Finding Common Ground
Rick Doblin recounts asking Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer about the ethics of accepting a controversial donation. Breyer's profound response emphasizes that the essence of democracy, especially in a polarized society, is the crucial effort to find common ground with those you disagree with.